'Before' the Big Bang?

'Before' the Big Bang?


Some people have tried to argue that 'before' this universe, there was already another universe which had contracted (became smaller.) It had become so small that it was in the form of a dense fireball. People say 'before' (with speech marks around the word Before) because Time in this universe began after the Big Bang.

They argue that this was the cause of the Big Bang which formed our universe that we are living in today, and the way this dense fireball became this universe was by expanding itself (the Big Bang occuring.)


They try to use this to argue against those who believe that God caused the Big Bang, and they argue that instead - all matter has always been forever - without a starting. And that these expansions and contractions have been occuring forever to form universes.



We just respond to this that;

1) There isn't any proof for this, since the 'other' universe is not visible to us - due to the fact that this universe is 'caused' because that one 'contracted' in the first place. Therefore this is simply an opinion, but isn't really backed up with much proof. It's just a hypothesis without any proofs.


2) Even if that is true, even if it is proven somehow. Then this still does not matter since Allah has been creating things forever, since He is Eternal without a beginning.

So He can create what He wills, through whatever way He wills. If this means creating one universe from another, then sure - why not? He creates humans from other humans, so why can't He create a universe from another universe? He has the power and He is the Wise, All Knowing.

Continued...


This is a Christian site, but still, you can check this section out insha Allah:

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/beginning.html#n01


Atheists cannot prove any other universes were before this universe since there is no proof for it;

Although there are atheistic scientists who believe that the universe existed before the Big Bang, I must make it clear that they present no evidence for this belief, since none exists! This kind of belief is metaphysical in nature as indicated in an article from the The Origin-of-Life Foundation, Inc.®:

"Appeals to multiple or 'parallel' cosmoses or to an infinite number of cosmic 'Big Bang/Crunch' oscillations as essential elements of proposed mechanisms are not acceptable in submissions due to a lack of empirical correlation and testability. Such beliefs are without hard physical evidence and must therefore be considered unfalsifiable, currently outside the methodology of scientific investigation to confirm or disprove, and therefore more mathematically theoretical and metaphysical than scientific in nature. Recent cosmological evidence also suggests insufficient mass for gravity to reverse continuing cosmic expansion. The best cosmological evidence thus far suggests the cosmos is finite rather than infinite in age."¹

http://lifeorigin.org/rul_disc.htm

The Origin-of-Life Foundation should not be confused with "creation science"or "intelligent design" groups. It has no religious affiliations of any kind, nor are we connected in any way with any New Age, Gaia, or "Science and Spirit" groups. The Origin-of-Life Foundation, Inc. is a science and education foundation encouraging the pursuit of natural-process explanations and mechanisms within nature.

So this quote is from a non biased source - not pro religious, nor pro atheist.

Metaphysical is something which is outside the realms of science, so science can't prove it or disprove it. Most of the time it's to do with things which aren't physical, which require belief.

Definition of Metaphysical:

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=define%3A+metaphysical&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a


Metaphysical: Literally, beyond the physical realm, beyond that which we can realize or discover with our five senses. Also, a branch of philosophy which studies the “beingness” or inherent nature of reality.
www.himalayasaltcrystal.com/glossary.htm


Something which we can't discover with out 5 senses is not science. And is therefore something metaphysical.

If Jesus (as) is the Son of God and simultaneously God...

If Jesus (as) is the Son of God and simultaneously God, why would he say, "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?" that is "My God, My God, why have You forsaken me?" Mark 15"34, Matthew 27:46? Not that I believe Jesus (as) said that, but the point is that in the Bible he is referring to another being as "his God" and how can God forsake (renounce or turn away from entirely) himself.

If Jesus (as) is God, why would he say, "Abba, Father! All things are possible for you; remove this cup from me; yet not what I will, but what You will." Luke 22:42, Mark 14:36, Matthew 26:39? Jesus' (as) will was clearly different from that of the One he was praying to in the Garden of Gethsemane, yet he was willing to submit his personal will to that of "the Father". We know that the One God can't have two contrasting wills at the same time.

If Jesus (as) is God, how could he be tempted by "the kingdoms of the world and their glory" if only he "fall down and worship" the devil Matthew 4:8-9? How can God be tempted with the ownership of His creation that He already owns? May Allah forgive me for saying, but how is it possible for God to worship the devil?

http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-poetry/41449-o-christ-worshippers-qasidah-refutes-christianity-ibn-ul-qayyim.html

atheists say humans are animals..

atheists say that humans are animals, they have desires, they go for what they want - the only advantage they have is that they are more advanced physically aswell as mentally.


we respond: yes, that's totally true. we are created from a similar makeup to animals, we have desires, and we are similar in many ways - however - the difference is that Allah honors us by giving us guidance for that advanced mind and freedom of choice that He has given to us. Unlike the many animals who are limited to their place of location. We have freedom in many ways, and this should lead us to be thankful to God, and He is willing to give us more.

If we use God's blessings, favours and still reject His guidance that He has sent for us (for our betterment) - then yes, we will remain as animals, wandering blindly without a straight path to follow.

why are humans so much like other animals if they didn't evolve off them?

why are humans so much like other animals if they didn't evolve off them?


humans are created from earth, according to the evolution theory - animals also came and were produced from this earth. we say God allowed it to occur, and it happened by His will & control. He created humans the way He wanted (this is explained in the Qur'an), and since alot of explanation isn't given about how animals were formed - the issue of them evolving over time doesn't contradict Islamic teachings.



why are they and we so similar physically? because they and we were created/produced from similar materials - the earth.


why are their and our behaviours so similar? animals were on the planet before humans, scientific research shows this. humans lived on the planet and they also interacted with the animals during their lifetimes, they learnt survival techniques off these animals, they learnt hunting and many other world techniques by watching what animals do and progressing on that.

They learnt higher morals, rules and even worldly advances through the guidance which Allah sent to the Messengers' to unite the people on where they differed. These Messengers were sent to the people to warn them of the consequences of their actions and that they are responsible for them in the sight of God, especially since they have the choice of doing right and wrong, and have the concept of understanding consequences for their actions. We will return to Him who will inform us of all that we used to do, and none will be dealt with unjustly on that Day.

some notes.. lol

atheists dont know who caused the big bang, if you asked them what caused it - they will say 'i dont know.'


therefore they base they're belief on doubt and they have no answer to that question. We say an All Powerful, Knowing God caused it. This is a better belief than having no answer or belief at all.



Islamic view on Big Bang?

http://dawahtips.blogspot.com/
http://www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch1-1-c.htm


i wont be able to reply now but that might be something to reflect on and maybe even argue.


If they ask who created God - tell them we take Allah as a God because He is uncreated. If he was created He would not be God, and therefore we would not take him as a deity/god. This is our belief, and it is a much more convincing belief that doubt (of the atheists) and no answer.

Because we cannot see God, it doesn't mean that he doesn't exist. 'Absence of proof is not proof of absence' - as the debate topic goes. There can be someone behind a door and although you can't see him, it isn't proof that he isn't there.

We cannot see emotions physically, but we see their product; tears, smile etc. The hormones in our body cause us to get these feelings, however the feelings cannot be physically seen except through their product i.e. tears, laugh etc.

some notes.. lol

atheists dont know who caused the big bang, if you asked them what caused it - they will say 'i dont know.'


therefore they base they're belief on doubt and they have no answer to that question. We say an All Powerful, Knowing God caused it. This is a better belief than having no answer or belief at all.



Islamic view on Big Bang?

http://dawahtips.blogspot.com/
http://www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch1-1-c.htm


i wont be able to reply now but that might be something to reflect on and maybe even argue.


If they ask who created God - tell them we take Allah as a God because He is uncreated. If he was created He would not be God, and therefore we would not take him as a deity/god. This is our belief, and it is a much more convincing belief that doubt (of the atheists) and no answer.

Because we cannot see God, it doesn't mean that he doesn't exist. 'Absence of proof is not proof of absence' - as the debate topic goes. There can be someone behind a door and although you can't see him, it isn't proof that he isn't there.

We cannot see emotions physically, but we see their product; tears, smile etc. The hormones in our body cause us to get these feelings, however the feelings cannot be physically seen except through their product i.e. tears, laugh etc.

Big Bang - An Islamic Perspective?

Big Bang - An Islamic Perspective?

The Big Bang theory attempts to explain how the universe began. This theory was put forward by Edwin Hubble in 1929. He discovered that the galaxies close to the Milky Way are moving and distancing away from us. He also noticed that the further the galaxies were, the faster they were distancing. From this he argued that the universe had a starting point from which it was expanding and has been expanding from since.

"And the heavens We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander." [Quran: 51:47] (the word vaasi’ in Arabic means vast, moowsi’oon [which comes from the root word vaasi’] is the word used in that verse which signifies that someone is an expander and expanding that certain thing, in the context of the verse – the heavens or space is gradually being expanded by God’s control.]

What occurred before the Big Bang remains unknown, how did all matter begin, what caused the Big Bang? Scientists who do not believe in the concept of God will say that they don't know and have no answer, while others will argue that this was caused by an all Powerful God who is outside His creation.

In the 1960s, Arno Panzias and Robert Wilson detected an afterglow from the Big Bang. This showed that during the universe’s early period, it was a hot and hostile place. They concluded from this that the universe began as a dense fireball. This is where it began to expand from.

This started to expand gradually, the different gases (of a smoke composition i.e. hydrogen, helium etc.) began to distance away.

Then He turned to the heaven when it was smoke... (Quran, 41:11)

This gradually expanded into the universe, the heavens, and space. After around 300,000 years these gradually cooled and slowly – over time - were formed into stars, and planets (including the planet earth we live in.)

Have not those who disbelieved known that the heavens and the earth were one connected entity, then We separated them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?

(Quran, 21:30)

A new star forming out of a cloud

of gas and dust (nebula)

The Lagoon nebula is a cloud of gas and dust, it is about 60 light years in diameter. It is excited by the ultraviolet radiation of the hot stars that have recently formed within its bulk. (Horizons, Exploring the Universe, Seeds, plate 9, from Association of Universities for Research in Astronomy, Inc.)

The above picture shows how the nebula (shown in the earlier image) has formed into hot stars gradually as the gases have cooled.

We as Muslims simply believe that all this was caused by Allah who is perfect in every way, whereas those who disbelieve in Allah - the Lord of the Worlds will simply have no explanation for who caused this and will remain questioning for eternity. Since they cannot prove or give a suitable explanation to what occured before the Big Bang. The atheists will say all the planets and starts etc. formed by chance, we will say that it all happened by Allah's will.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/space/origins/bigbang/

http://www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch1-1-c.htm